Blocking GMX

[Christian Kreutzfeldt]

Hi!

Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!

With regards,
Christian Kreutzfeldt

[Matthew Kitchin]

Post by Christian Kreutzfeldt
Hi!
Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!

Spamcop doesn't block mail. Mail servers and admins block mail. How could
spamcop block an email that is being sent between 2 other companies?

-Matthew

[Robert Slade]

Post by Christian Kreutzfeldt
Hi!
Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!
With regards,
Christian Kreutzfeldt

Christian,

Spamcop does not block mails nor does it filter mail. It provides a list of IP
addresses that originate spam based on user reports. It is for the ISPs you are
sending to to decide to block mail or not. They are the ones filtering mail.

From what I can tell mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by
213.165.64.100. There are reports from 105 different users reporting this
address. Most recent report was 3 hours ago. This server has been listed and
de-listed quite a few times:

Listing history for past 30 days:
listed: 04 September 2003 15:50:02 +0100
delisted: 04 September 2003 05:20:02 +0100
listed: 01 September 2003 01:45:02 +0100
delisted: 19 August 2003 16:55:03 +0100
listed: 19 August 2003 16:15:03 +0100
delisted: 18 August 2003 10:30:04 +0100
listed: 18 August 2003 09:50:03 +0100

In total there has been 5327 spam reports for this server all of which are sent
to ***@gmx.de. The complete block has over 10000 reports. It looks like this
sever is a major source of Spam.

You maybe a legal company but you are keeping Company with some illegal
operations (or rather will be illegal after October when the EU directive on
spam comes into force).

I suggest that you get gmx.de to wake up and do something about the spam
originating with them or find another ISP.

Rob

A spamcop user who doesn't want to be bombarded with adds for porn sites etc.

[Turan Fettahoglu]

Post by Robert Slade
From what I can tell mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by
213.165.64.100. There are reports from 105 different users reporting this
address. Most recent report was 3 hours ago. This server has been listed and
listed: 04 September 2003 15:50:02 +0100
delisted: 04 September 2003 05:20:02 +0100

...

GMX is said to offer one of the most rigorous spam filter for their
customers. Such a company could not afford to keep spammers longer than
necessary. However, your list looks genuine. Could this be an attempt to
damage GMX? Joe job? A spammer's revenge?

Turan

[Socks the Whitehouse Cat]

Giving up the right to remain silent, "Turan Fettahoglu"

Post by Turan Fettahoglu

Post by Robert Slade
From what I can tell mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by
213.165.64.100. There are reports from 105 different users reporting
this address. Most recent report was 3 hours ago. This server has
been listed

and

Post by Robert Slade
listed: 04 September 2003 15:50:02 +0100
delisted: 04 September 2003 05:20:02 +0100

...
GMX is said to offer one of the most rigorous spam filter for their
customers. Such a company could not afford to keep spammers longer
than necessary. However, your list looks genuine. Could this be an
attempt to damage GMX? Joe job? A spammer's revenge?
Turan

not with 105 unique users reporting it (now 108). Plus quite a few spam
traps.

[Robert Slade]

Post by Turan Fettahoglu

Post by Robert Slade
From what I can tell mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by
213.165.64.100. There are reports from 105 different users reporting this
address. Most recent report was 3 hours ago. This server has been listed

and

Post by Robert Slade
listed: 04 September 2003 15:50:02 +0100
delisted: 04 September 2003 05:20:02 +0100

...
GMX is said to offer one of the most rigorous spam filter for their
customers. Such a company could not afford to keep spammers longer than
necessary. However, your list looks genuine. Could this be an attempt to
damage GMX? Joe job? A spammer's revenge?
Turan

I think you said it. For GMX customers, but what about GMX customers? I think
that what we are seeing is the result of the increasing levels of Spam. Users
are getting more Spam and complaining more. ISPs look after their customers
first after all that is their source of income. If their users are seeing more
spam then the ISP will look to blocking it - maybe using blocking lists. Use a
blocking list approach and spam goes right down customer happy :-). The problem
now becomes: some spam gets into an ISPs system, say a server is not setup
properly and the spammers are scanning to find open proxies etc, ISP ends up on
block list, customer unhappy :-( can't send mail, call the police, you are
censoring me etc, etc.

The real problem is the spammers themselves, no spammers no problem, they are
sneaky, they lie and will exploit any chink however small. Block lists are not
the real answer though they are not dynamic, get on it you are dammed even
though it may not be your fault - someone may have forgotten that they opted
into a mailing list etc. The problem has to be tackled at the higher level, for
example the European Union has issued a directive which comes into force in
October which bans unsolicited bulk advertising and requires a Company to
operate a positive opt-in approach. Anybody not operating such a system can be
fined. Problem being how do you police it. The directive makes it the ISPs
problem, but the individual countries are going slightly different ways when
they enact it. If the Spam comes from a non EU country there is little to be
done, apart from invading.

Back to your question, I don't think this is any more than an ISP trying to keep
up with the spammers and not quite getting there. GMX is no different to other
ISPs look to BT, here in the UK. Their servers keep getting on the list and
dropping off. As I see it they are loosing money and cannot afford the level of
support they need to make sure their system is secure and can only react to
reports after the event.

Rob

[Merlyn]

Post by Turan Fettahoglu
GMX is said to offer one of the most rigorous spam filter for their
customers. Such a company could not afford to keep spammers longer than
necessary. However, your list looks genuine. Could this be an attempt to
damage GMX? Joe job? A spammer's revenge?
Turan

They might be blocking it coming in to their servers but they are not
blocking it going ot of their servers. They are not doing anything to the
spammer that has been using their resources since August 18th.

Quite a bit of spam has been reported from one of their
servers(213.165.64.100).

Everyone is tired of receiving mortgage quotes, penis enlargement, breast
enhancement, weight loss, nude 40 year old teenage sluts, Viagra, vacation,
lottery, prescription drug, business opportunities, university degrees,
gambling, get rich quick, MLM, Russian brides, work from home, stock scams,
pirated software and everything else from these servers so they have decided
to block anything coming from them just to be sure.

You should contact your ISP or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.

HTH HAND

[caroljean52]

Post by Turan Fettahoglu
GMX is said to offer one of the most rigorous spam filter for their
customers. Such a company could not afford to keep spammers longer than
necessary. However, your list looks genuine. Could this be an attempt to
damage GMX? Joe job? A spammer's revenge?

Unfortunately, a lot of companies are very big on stopping
incoming spam but don't give a damn about the outgoing stuff. I'm
not saying that this is the case here but it's a possibility
worth considering.

Carol
Seattle USA

[Merlyn]

Post by Christian Kreutzfeldt
Hi!
Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!
With regards,
Christian Kreutzfeldt

No one cares who it belongs to as long as spam is spewing from those
servers. Quit sharing your servers with spammers.

Evidently many other hosts trust the Spamcop list more than they trust your
servers because they are the ones blocking your email, not Spamcop.

Everyone is tired of receiving mortgage quotes, penis enlargement, breast
enhancement, weight loss, nude 40 year old teenage sluts, Viagra, vacation,
lottery, prescription drug, business opportunity offers and everything else
from these servers so they have decided to block anything coming from them
just to be sure.

You should contact your isp or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.

HTH HAND

[Lars Lucomo]

Post by Merlyn
No one cares who it belongs to as long as spam is spewing from those
servers. Quit sharing your servers with spammers.
You should contact your isp or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.
HTH HAND

I think Spamcomp hurts itself listing GMX, a huge and trustworthy
(specially in fighting against spam) provider with 16 million e-mail
accounts in europe. I guess that many other providers will now cancel their
usage of the spamcop block lists. So the one who supports the spammers here
is Spamcop in making usage of their block lists impossible. I have read in
the news here in Germany that Spamcop seems to have huge problems in
communicating with listed providers who want to speak with Spamcop.

120 spams vs 16 million e-mail accounts. Something doesn't work here and I
think it's (sadly) the block list.

[Carly]

Post by Lars Lucomo

Post by Merlyn
No one cares who it belongs to as long as spam is spewing from those
servers. Quit sharing your servers with spammers.
You should contact your isp or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.
HTH HAND

I think Spamcomp hurts itself listing GMX, a huge and trustworthy
(specially in fighting against spam) provider with 16 million e-mail
accounts in europe. I guess that many other providers will now cancel
their usage of the spamcop block lists. So the one who supports the
spammers here is Spamcop in making usage of their block lists
impossible. I have read in the news here in Germany that Spamcop
seems to have huge problems in communicating with listed providers
who want to speak with Spamcop.
120 spams vs 16 million e-mail accounts. Something doesn't work here
and I think it's (sadly) the block list.

Since SpamCop isn't doing the *actual* blocking, correspondence should
be made with the ISPs implementing the blocklists, shouldn't it? If
spam discontinues from that IP Address, it will be delisted within 48
hours. If GMX is that great at ridding its servers of spammers & abused
open proxies/relays, then it shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Merlyn]

Post by Lars Lucomo
I think Spamcomp hurts itself listing GMX, a huge and trustworthy
(specially in fighting against spam) provider with 16 million e-mail
accounts in europe. I guess that many other providers will now cancel their
usage of the spamcop block lists. So the one who supports the spammers here
is Spamcop in making usage of their block lists impossible. I have read in
the news here in Germany that Spamcop seems to have huge problems in
communicating with listed providers who want to speak with Spamcop.
120 spams vs 16 million e-mail accounts. Something doesn't work here and I
think it's (sadly) the block list.

So, just because they are big it is ok to have spammers?

I don't think so........

[Julia Jones]

In message <***@localhost>, Lars Lucomo <***@gmx.net>
writes

Post by Lars Lucomo

Post by Merlyn
No one cares who it belongs to as long as spam is spewing from those
servers. Quit sharing your servers with spammers.
You should contact your isp or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.
HTH HAND

I think Spamcomp hurts itself listing GMX, a huge and trustworthy
(specially in fighting against spam) provider with 16 million e-mail
accounts in europe. I guess that many other providers will now cancel
their usage of the spamcop block lists. So the one who supports the
spammers here is Spamcop in making usage of their block lists
impossible. I have read in the news here in Germany that Spamcop seems
to have huge problems in communicating with listed providers who want
to speak with Spamcop.
120 spams vs 16 million e-mail accounts. Something doesn't work here
and I think it's (sadly) the block list.

No, it's gmx. It's not in the least bit trustworthy in my mind - not
after the amount of spam spewed into my inbox over the last month. And
it's not the first time - my reaction was "oh no, not them again". They
may well do a good job of stopping spam reaching their customers, but
they do nothing to stop spam coming *out* of their network.

The impression *I* have of gmx is a spamhaus that does nothing about
multiple reports of abuse emanating from their network.

[Robert Slade]

Post by Lars Lucomo

Post by Merlyn
No one cares who it belongs to as long as spam is spewing from those
servers. Quit sharing your servers with spammers.
You should contact your isp or the operator of these servers and have them
remove their spammers.
HTH HAND

I think Spamcomp hurts itself listing GMX, a huge and trustworthy
(specially in fighting against spam) provider with 16 million e-mail
accounts in europe.

Rubbish. First of all get your facts straight BTW Spamcop is not listing GMX
now, and it did not do it because it felt like it. Spamcop is not the only list
which GMX is on. They can't be all wrong. Yes there are a large number of users,
but there is a large amount of spam coming from GMX, look at the evidence. This
was the situation yesterday:

Mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by 213.165.64.100. There are reports
from 105 different users reporting this address. Most recent report was 3 hours
ago. This server has been listed and de-listed quite a few times:

Listing history for past 30 days:
listed: 04 September 2003 15:50:02 +0100
delisted: 04 September 2003 05:20:02 +0100
listed: 01 September 2003 01:45:02 +0100
delisted: 19 August 2003 16:55:03 +0100
listed: 19 August 2003 16:15:03 +0100
delisted: 18 August 2003 10:30:04 +0100
listed: 18 August 2003 09:50:03 +0100

In total there has been 5327 spam reports for this server all of which are sent
to ***@gmx.de. The complete block has over 10000 reports. It looks like this
sever is a major source of Spam.

10000 reports is this reasonable!!!!

GMX maybe doing something about spam going to their customers but its still
getting out, they are not doing enough. All the Spamcop reports go to GMX so
they know what is happening, this did not come out of the blue.

I guess that many other providers will now cancel

Post by Lars Lucomo
their usage of the spamcop block lists. So the one who supports the
spammers here is Spamcop in making usage of their block lists
impossible.

No GMX is supporting them by not doing enough to stop it. Again it is not just
Spamcop listing GMX what about the others? At least GMX is now working with
Spamcop to secure their system

I have read in the news here in Germany that Spamcop seems

Post by Lars Lucomo
to have huge problems in communicating with listed providers who want to
speak with Spamcop.

It is quite easy to contact spamcop, Newspapers like to make sensational
stories. If you look in the newsgroups, you will see Spamcop Deputies answering
queries etc most of the time. There are e-mail addresses to. All of the Spamcop
reports have links to the relevant information to enable the ISP to find out
what the problem is. They can also contact the originator of the report.

Post by Lars Lucomo
120 spams vs 16 million e-mail accounts. Something doesn't work here and
I think it's (sadly) the block list.

No its GMX other ISPs bigger than GMX don't have this problem. GMX users are not
the whole world, why should there be an exception made for them?

Rob

A Spamcop user, who has just put GMX on his personnel block list because all I
get from GMX is porn adverts etc.

[Godwin Stewart]

Post by Robert Slade
In total there has been 5327 spam reports for this server all of which
looks like this sever is a major source of Spam.
10000 reports is this reasonable!!!!

Also factor in that there are likely to be 1000's of pieces of spam sent
for each single report filed...

[John Phillips]

Post by Robert Slade
Rubbish. First of all get your facts straight BTW Spamcop is not listing GMX
now, and it did not do it because it felt like it. Spamcop is not the only list
which GMX is on. They can't be all wrong. Yes there are a large number of users,
but there is a large amount of spam coming from GMX, look at the evidence. This
Mail for gmx.de (and gmx.net) is handled by 213.165.64.100. There are reports
from 105 different users reporting this address. Most recent report was 3 hours

There was a post by a deputy that clarifies the matter (JT I thought
but I can't find it again via searches). It appears to be an issue
that parallels that related to Excite.com a few days ago. One or more
of SpamCop's spam traps may be compromised. If I have it correctly, a
hacker or spammer is sending mail to bogus GMX addresses and the mail
is bouncing to the spam trap(s) by design. This is why the larting has
been suspended by the deputies. If you ignore the 12 trap reports for
213.165.64.100, the 26 reports with 4656 sample traffic yields a ratio
of .003, far below the .02 threshold.



Regards,

John Phillips

[Redstone]

Post by Christian Kreutzfeldt
Hi!
Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!
With regards,
Christian Kreutzfeldt

IP address?

[Karl-Josef Ziegler]

Post by Christian Kreutzfeldt
Is it your definition of business? Blocking out legal email providers? I do
own a gmx address and I am really angry about your company, possibly
blocking emails coming from my address. You are filtering information,
defining what is good and what is bad. What if any other company filters
out all traffic coming from your servers? Would you accept or even like
it? You wouldn't! Please think about it and remove GMX from you blacklist!

some additional information:

GMX is one of the largest companies for free
e-mail addresses in Germany. (like Hotmail, Yahoo....)
The problem may be, how a new account is verificated.
It may be to easy to create a new account with fake
contact data and then sending spam. So it's easy to
start a 'Joe Job' for getting GMX in blocklists.

Best regards,

- Karl-Josef Ziegler

[Dave Sanderson]

Post by Karl-Josef Ziegler
The problem may be, how a new account is verificated.
It may be to easy to create a new account with fake
contact data and then sending spam. So it's easy to
start a 'Joe Job' for getting GMX in blocklists.

If the spammer is able to sign up for an account on their system and
send out spam, then it's not a JoeJob. If that's what's happening,
their system really is the source of the spam and should be on the list
until they devise a system that keeps spammers off their network.